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Short sale negotiatio n
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02-02-2012 07:07 PM
All,
I am just got an offer accepted by the bank for a short sale property and going to inspect soon. If I find issues during inspection, will the bank negotate or discount on the selling price? I had to wait for 3 months to get to this point. The short saler is negotiated by a "processor".
Re: Short sale negotiatio n
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02-02-2012 11:00 PM
Depends on a lot of factors, including how much the price would need to be adjusted and whether there is one mortgage or multiple mortgages on the house (among others).
Some lenders will say it's as-is and start the process over with another buyer if you try to go back. Others will recognize that the next bid might be even lower and work with the current 1st position bid (in this case, you).
Unfortunately, I've heard anecdotes all over the place, so rather unpredictable.
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02-03-2012 10:06 AM
Short sales are going to be as-is unless the seller themselve is going to do repairs (which is highly unlikely). The short sale lien holder doesn't have an ownership interest in the property so they aren't going to do any repairs.
It is rare that the lien holder will allow a price reduction either based on the inspection.
This probably isn't the answer you're looking for, but a short sale is going to be take it or leave it after inspection.
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02-03-2012 10:45 AM
Thanks for Chiming in , Matt! What about concessions to the price based on issues that come up? I know of at least one example where a significant issue gave way to a significant price concession from the lien-holder, but this was a couple of years ago. Have you seen this sort of thing?
Chad Dierickx | chad (at) redfin (dot) com
Open Book Manager - Buy-Side
Re: Short sale negotiatio n
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02-03-2012 01:24 PM
My neighbor in Loyal Heights had to do a short sale. The bank did end up giving some sort of concession for the crushed sewer line one potential buyer found. (The house was under contract several times before it finally sold. I think that house had the most DOM of any house under $400k in our zip code simply because the bank was uncooperative.)
The number one recommendation I have is to make sure that you have an accurate estimate of any repairs. An inspector can tell you what's wrong, but can't tell you what it will take to fix it. Sometimes when we're asked to prepare a comprehensive estimate based on an inspector's report, we find instances where something seems really scary, such as some types of cracks in the foundation, but the repair is actually not that expensive. DEFINITELY pay the extra money to have the sewer scoped.
Good luck!
Eleanor
Re: Short sale negotiatio n
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02-04-2012 08:46 AM
From what I've seen, it is rare for a bank to allow a reduction following inspection. I've had it happen one time with a roof that needed replaced, but it took 4 more months before the bank agreed and that was two years ago.
I recommend buyers do the inspection up front so they don't end up waiting the short sale time period to just find out that the house has defects. Currently the banks are getting very strict on short sales and not allowing any changes once the approval is given. They are even starting to go through the buyer's GFE line by line if the buyer is asking for closing costs. Banks are specifying which costs they will allow and which they won't, even on FHA loans where they used to allow the full 3%, now it is down more around 1.2% in concessions.
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02-05-2012 12:02 PM
More than likely you're back to square one. This is true of most sales; short or otherwise. A seller is often aware of the fact that there will be some items on a punch list and has a figure in mind. A bank however has no such figure.
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02-07-2012 01:01 PM
Hello Lpve -
Your question is timely and insightful - I can tell you understand the answer is not going to be the same in every instance. This is the nature of a short sale. Because short sales are often a moving target, it depends on the circumstances of each one when determining the likelihood of success with respect to the question of how to handle repairs following the inspection. Many short sales have similar issues, but others can can be an altogether distinct animal. A bankruptcy short sale is one example.
I. Requests after Inspection
I would suggest considering some of the following factors before making a decision:
1. Who is the bank?
Is the lienholder or bank a local lender or is the bank a national entity? If local, the chances are much greater of getting a timely and/or positive answer to a request for a reduction of the purchase price based on the inspection results (as well as other questions and information). If the bank is a large, national lender, the more likely the response will be delayed (sometimes considerably) or rejected. However, even if the bank is a large one, the listing agent may be able to tell you whether they have worked with the bank before, how often, and if so, they may tell you what their experience has been with the bank when buyers have asked for a price reduction following the inspection. An experienced listing agent may have quick access to a bank negotiator and can find out information faster than others.
The seller, the listing agent and the bank all want the sale to be successful as well. A common theme from agents is to place all or most of the blame on the bank in terms of the lack of success with the short sale. I am not defending banks, but from the banks' perspective, it is important to be aware of the other side of the coin. Banks often claim the listing agent and/or the seller determines the success or failure of the short sale. Failure to provide the bank with all of the necessary documentation, not providing accurate information, or not following all of the bank's requests are some examples that cause considerable delay and/or an unsuccessful outcome. If there is one thing a bank wants to avoid more than a short sale, it is a foreclosure. Short sales are much more inexpensive to a bank than taking a property back via foreclosure.
2. Communication between agents is critical, especially with a short sale.
There is no downside to asking questions of the sellers' agent, especially an experienced one. You may say "Why would my agent ask the seller's agent if the bank will reduce the price after my inspection?" Of course they won't say "yes", right? That may be right. However, in my experience, the answer has been "yes" more often than I thought it would have been. There is nothing wrong with asking the question. If I hadn't asked, the decision to make the request might not have been made. Asking questions can provide potentially great information. Whatever the answer is, take it as part of the information needed to make a more informed decision. Asking questions, even ones that appear unproductive, does not mean they will be unproductive, nor does it mean suspending good judgment regardless of whether you like or don't like the answer.
Maybe it's part of my background as an attorney in addition to being a real estate broker, but having negotiated cases with insurance companies involving big cases for more than a decade, negotiating is in my blood. Communications with the other side, bad or good, honest or dishonest, is essential. Simply listening to what is being said without interrupting can provide valuable information. Listening can allow you to hear gems of information. Sometimes, the best information one can learn is from what was not said. Negotiating is an art, not a science, but practice hones the art. Information is the key to negotiation.
Not all agents deal with each other repeatedly, but many do, especially with short sales. As with any communication, trust is paramount. If the agent tells you something you know is not true or you find out was not true, that dictates future communications.The opposite is also true. If the information you received was truthful and reliable, this goes a long way to establishing trust. Trust translates to better results for clients. Agents often work together more than once and agents speak to other agents so (in theory), the incentive is to cooperate. It isn't always easy to do. Personally, learning how to improve communication skills is an ongoing process.
3. How significant are the repairs?
Unless the repairs are fairly substantial, expensive, and require the services of numerous professionals, it would probably be best not to request concessions for repairs. If the repairs involve a lot of cosmetic, wear and tear, and minor electrical, plumbing, small structural items, etc..The chances of a price reduction are not great. However, unlike bank owned properties, short sales are not always sold in an "as is" condition. Concessions can and should be made when appropriate. If the repairs are such that you would not buy the home without a price reduction, then you must ask for the price reduction. If the repairs are so extensive that the bank knows they are going to have a hard time selling the house at the price they agreed to before the inspection, they will probably have to lower the price. Sometimes, submitting an extensive inspection report to the bank with significant findings can also burden the bank with the information and leverage your bargaining position.
4. Are there competing offers to consider?
If a buyer finds a great house that many other buyers are scratching and clawing to get, requesting a price reduction following an inspection might jeopardize the sale. If there are several back up offers, including one or more without an inspection contingency, the bank could simply approve one of the other offers waiting in line.
5. Following the inspection - A price reduction is the option, not requesting repairs
Requesting a reduction in price is the only realistic or viable option with a short sale. Banks are not going to make the repairs on behalf of the seller, nor will the seller make the repairs. I have had sellers make minor repairs if they could afford it, but the vast majority of the time, sellers who need to do a short sale do not have the finances available to make the repairs. Whether to ask for the price reduction as a result of the repairs needed is situational.
Unfortunately, some agents make generalized statements about requesting price reductions due to the repairs needed and default to the "don't ask for them" side. They simply tell their clients requesting price reductions after an inspection is not productive, so don't ask. Perhaps this has been their experience in some instances so they stop trying. My philosophy is more specific to the circumstances. If the inspection revealed significant issues, it is reasonable to request a reduction in the purchase price. If the question is not asked to the bank, the result is going to be the same everytime.
If each situation is carefully analyzed, the opportunity may be ripe to make the request. In sum, it is my belief a duty is owed to the buyer/client to investigate the feasibility of the request. Making negative assumptions in general about the outcome of the request deprives the buyer/client of an important and valuable opportunity. This is a hard lesson to learn as I have made assumptions that turned out to be wrong.
II. Closing Costs
Although unrelated to the repair question, asking the bank to pay some of the closing costs out of the proceeds of the sale is, in my opinion, a worthwhile request if the circumstances permit. If the property is not a red hot property with cash offers, no contingencies, etc..(and there are properties in this market that fall in this category) asking for 2% toward closing costs is a reasonable request. The bank can say "no", they can reduce the amount of the request or even better, they can say "yes". Again, what you don't ask for you will not get. This is an unprecedented buyers' market. Closing costs are often cash out of pocket to a buyer so it means a lot. Even if the buyers' request for a price reduction based on the repairs needed is rejected by the bank, a buyer has this additional arrow in his/her quiver to help offset the cost of repairs needed by asking for closing costs. Often, with the refund I provide to clients combined with the bank agreeing to pay some or 2% or more of the closing costs, all of the buyers closing costs are covered. There are other ways to get the bank to agree to paying closing costs.
This market is new and evolving. In this environment, new strategies often carry the day over conventional, traditional methods.
Sound Counsel Realty

