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Rebate Mess...
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12-13-2011 11:21 PM
We hired an agent who agreed to give us some rebate from her commission. She initially told us our loan agent should be able to properly deal with it such as put it in downpayment or for purchase price deduction. Our loan agent said the rebate can only be used for the closing cost, which won't consume the amount. I believe the remaining of the rebate can be given to us and according to Redfin's information, this may not be subject to tax. But our loan agent insisted she have difficulty to do this. I just don't know how Redfin deal with the rebate? Who really should write the check to us? Our agent or some other party?
We also try to let the seller low the price (then pay our agent with corresponding proportion of the commision), but the seller's agent said this was not the way she does the business. Our agent seemed to be not very clear what she should do to help us. I wrote 'private message' to the seller talking about the benefits for him and me if the price can be lowered, the seller forwarded my message to his agent. His agent immediatetly told my agent that she and the seller were not happy with my "private message" (now become public).
It looks now the seller's agent said if we want to lower the price, our agent should initialize it. She and seller will review it and she does not want any commision loss because of the lowered price. Our agent does not want to have loss either. I guess I'm the only 'loser' if I pursuit this way. What a mess!
Re: Rebate Mess...
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12-14-2011 05:37 AM
I haven't yet completed a purchase with Redfin but when I made an offer my agent told me that most lenders require the rebate to be used for closing costs. My rebate was going to be about $11K so my agent recommended that I use it to buy down my points. Even after doing that I would likely have some left over that I wouldn't be able to use.
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12-14-2011 07:22 AM
DWBowers,
Can you use your rebate for both points and closing costs to exhaust your rebate? I'd hate for you to leave money on the table, too.
Re: Rebate Mess...
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12-14-2011 07:59 AM - last edited on 12-14-2011 08:00 AM
In a contract (we requested earlier) already signed by the seller and us, we have a sentence like
"The Seller Broker shall contribute $xxxx to the buyer at closing", does this mean Seller Broker write me a check at closing?
Re: Rebate Mess...
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12-14-2011 10:39 PM
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Re: Rebate Mess...
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12-15-2011 12:56 AM
The issue is that no lender will allow you to use an agent credit toward your downpayment, only toward closing costs.
Adding points and buying down the rate is a way to increase your closing costs. Adding a home warranty. Sometimes I have the escrow company bring in the out of pocket expense of the home inspection so it can be shown as a closing cost and the amount refunded via the agent credit. I've used it to make repairs that the buyer wanted and the seller did not agree to. If it is a large credit and the contract has the seller paying the closing costs, then it usually has to come off the purchase price. But giving a buyer cash after closing is not normally allowed by the lender, as it is considered to be a reimbursement of part of the downpayment, and the downpayment cannot be paid by the agent. If your dowpayment is $10,000 and you pay it...but get handed $1,000 at or after closing, they view that as your only having paid $9,000 of your $10,000 downpayment.
Handing a buyer cash after closing is generally considered "lender fraud" as a lender will not allow the buyer to get "change" at (or after) closing, if the only money they bring to closing is the downpayment.
Sound Realty
Re: Rebate Mess...
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12-15-2011 09:20 AM - last edited on 12-15-2011 09:22 AM
I found every Ardell's response is profound for the questions I have asked -- I should probably have hired Ardell --- Not sure how much rebate she usually gives.
We have the somewhat tough situation here. The seller and seller'a agent refused to lower the price -- and further indicated we had ethical issues for such a request (I was fairly disppointed by reading the words). I guess the worst case is to give all commission to our agent, let her give us the rebate (I said I could pay the tax for my part when she files her tax if there was really something we cannot resovle -- she was still very reluctant).
Probably hiring a redfin agent may be much better than my current agent. I thought I could get a little more rebate -- but lots of troubles and at the end of the day, I may not get nearly what I expected.
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12-15-2011 01:06 PM
When you make the change to asking price to absorb a credit, which is rare but sometimes needed, it is a simple "wash".
Let's say it's $5,000 of rebate to be absorbed and the purchase price is $300,000 with the seller having signed a contract pre-listing to offer the Agent for the Buyer 3% of the sale price. In that case the Agent for the Buyer signs something with the Seller changing that commission to "3% minus $5,000" and the Buyer and Seller sign something changing the price to $295,000. These have to be done simultaneously. One agreement is signed by the agents (brokerages) both and the seller, and not the buyer. The other is signed by the buyer and seller and not the agents. It takes both documents to complete the exchange of $5,000 of commission for a $5,000 reduction in the agreed purchase price.
That means both brokerages and the buyer and the seller all have to sign...and consequently it is often a "last resort" and rarely the method used to pick up a small gap in agreed credit vs allowed credit. If the credit is $5,000 but the disallowed credit/overage is only twenty five bucks, as example, it's easier for the agent to give the buyer a $25 gift certificate to Home Depot as a "closing gift", than to involve all of the parties in effecting the absorption of a small amount.
A large check after closing is most often allowed when the buyer's downpayment is in excess of the amount "required". Let's say the interest rate and the loan approval is the same for 35% down as it would be for 30% down and the buyer is putting 35% down. In that case the lender would likely allow the credit or cash after closing. Not because they allow the agent to pay part of the 35% down money, but because they can easily call that same dollar amount downpayment 30% down instead of 35% down, with no adverse consequence. They are not approving the cash credit at or after closing, as much as they are approving the loan on the same terms with 30% down vs 35% down. They net the credit from the downpayment, with 30% down being more than sufficient.
I appreciate that you feel my responses are "profound", and thank you, but it's really just basic math, knowing the WHY of the rules that apply...plus a dash of everyday common sense.
It's every day real estate. Not only knowing "the rules" but how they apply differently in each case at hand. It's a dance...one day it's a cha-cha...next client it's a rhumba. Many different ways to end up at the same good result.
There is no "ethical" issue...it sounds more like there is some confusion. Part of the problem is that the Buyer Agent Fee is actually, by contract prior to the home being listed, promised to the Listing Brokerage..who agrees to pay X of the total to the Buyer's Brokerage, if there is one. That means if there is no Buyer's Brokerage or the Buyer's Broker charges less than the amount offered, the difference belongs to the Listing Brokerage by contract with the seller put in place before the home is listed. Consequently an Agent for the Buyer is somewhat limited as to what they can promise their client, the buyer, by the contracts already in play before the buyer enters the room. That is why in most cases, the Buyer Agent credit is handled as a matter of disbursement instruction, vs any other method that requires seller approval, when and if possible.
If it needs to be a Purchase Price reduction, the agent usually knows that at the time they write the offer, and must add a clause saying that the credit can be used toward closing costs OR as a price reduction, in whole or in part. In other words, you need the seller to be on board with that option possibly being needed, at time of offer...and before the loan documents get to escrow...and not at the last minute. If the purchase price change changes the loan amount...you need to get that all nailed down before the lender draws the loan documents, or with enough time for the lender to send new loan documents.
What surprises me most about local escrow companies is they often do not alert anyone when there is an excess credit. They simply negate it down to the amount needed to close, without telling anyone there is "a problem". The buyer getting less and the seller getting more...is typically not viewed as "a problem" by escrow companies. So you have to pay very close attention, or you get stuck at closing signing away your "difference" to the seller.
Sound Realty
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12-16-2011 08:37 AM
Thank you very much for this information. We do have a large percentage of downpayment. My lender agent is trying to talk the lender rep with this information. Hopefully, this can be done.
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12-16-2011 08:39 AM
Another viable option is to reduce your principle amount buy the difference in funds (generally most lenders will require a minimum of $200 difference for this)

