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Andrei_K
Posts: 26
Registered: 03-29-2009

Why I Am Not Buying (Part 2)

[ Edited ]

This is the most recent data I assembled from realtytrac.com on the foreclosure activities in the SF Bay Area. It serves as a cumulative "leading indicator" for the state of the housing market for the next 6-9 months - after all these foreclosures eventually end up on the market.  

 

                          Oct-08    Nov-08 Dec-08 Jan-09    Feb-09    Mar-09

Santa Clara County                     
Pre-foreclosure    417        506      1143      1191       1117      1807
Auction                 655        748      747         581         505         819
REO                     658        471      734         521         287         439
TOTAL                 1730      1725    2624       2293      1909       3065
% Change                          -0.3     34.3        -14.4       -20.1        37.7

 

San Mateo County                  
Pre-foreclosure    162       143     353          343          356        441
Auction                 139       207      231         155          118         213
REO                     110        91       159          113          98           85
TOTAL                  411       441      743          611         572         739
% Change                          6.8      40.6          -21.6      -6.8          22.6

 

San Francisco County                 
Pre-foreclosure   59           74       176          147          214        247
Auction                 64          89       116           76           48           113
REO                     53          43       58             35           43            32
TOTAL                 176        206     350           258         305         392
% Change                         14.6     41.1         -35.7        15.4        22.2
                       
TOTAL                2317      2372    3717        3162       2786        4196
% Change                         2.3       36.2         -17.6       -13.5        33.6
 

Basically, this data shows that the amount of "foreclosure activities" continues to grow rapidly across all three counties, instead of declining:

 

 

 

 

This means we are going to see more foreclosed property on the market in the coming months.

 

How much will this trend affect the prices in the Bay Area?

 

Here is one very imporant observation. By comparing different activities you can notice that there is a huge GAP between the early-state activities (pre-foreclosure) and later-state activities (REO). For example, the ratio between pre-foreclosures and REOs for March was 4.1 in Santa Clara, 5.2 in San Mateo, and 7.7 (!!) in San Francisco. What does this mean?

 

This means that the current amount of foreclosures on the market will inevitably have to MULTIPLY FROM THEIR TODAY'S LEVELS in order to make up for this gap! Correct me if I am wrong, but it looks like in the next 6-12 months we are going to see four/five times more foreclosures on the market to what we see today in the Bay Area!! 

 

If this is all correct, foreclosures will be playing INCREASING role in driving the prices further DOWN across all three counties during this and the next year.

Message Edited by Andrei_K on 05-08-2009 03:08 PM
Regular Visitor
estudientes
Posts: 9
Registered: 04-09-2009

Re: Why I Am Not Buying (Part 2)

[ Edited ]

Fitch Ratings revised their real estate forecast ;

 

http://www.fitchratings.com/corporate/events/press_releases_detail.cfm?pr_id=469496

 

 

Fitch: U.S. House Prices to Drop Another 12.5% Before Hitting Bottom

23 Apr 2009 9:00 AM (EDT)

 

Fitch Ratings-New York-23 April 2009: U.S. home prices will fall an additional 12.5% from 2008's year end values before exhibiting more stability in late 2010, according to Fitch Ratings. This forecast reflects a reversion to early 2002's prices. Currently, prices are hovering around levels seen in mid 2003.

Fitch revised its projection from earlier expectations of a 10% further decline as of second quarter-2008 (2Q'08). The revision to Fitch's October 2008 forecast is due to the extremely weak economic factors in the fourth quarter of 2008, said Group Managing Director and U.S. RMBS group head Huxley Somerville. 'Very weak employment, limited re-financing opportunities and turbulent financial markets have extended into the first months of 2009, while government initiated programs have yet to yield any positive benefits,' said Somerville.

To date, national home prices have declined by 27%. Fitch's revised peak-to-trough expectation is for prices to decline by 36% from the peak price achieved in mid-2006. The additional 9% decline represents a 12.5% decline from today's levels. The 36% peak-to-trough decline is up from the forecast 30% decline reported in October 2008. Fitch believes that most of the correction will be incurred in the next two years, with prices exhibiting more stability from late 2010. Fitch's forecast analysis assumes 1.5% inflation rate for 2009 and 2010 and 3% for the following three years. Within the next few weeks, Fitch will release a state-by-state forecast of home price declines.

Fitch's forecast is primarily based on its expectation that home prices will return closer to the long-term historical mean, which has been the pattern of prior home price cycles. Given the volatile economic conditions, Fitch will continue to review its forecasts to ensure they are still accurate and provide updates every six months.

Message Edited by estudientes on 04-23-2009 10:49 PM
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Gecko
Posts: 47
Registered: 01-16-2009
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Re: Why I Am Not Buying (Part 2)



The democrats were counting on the bankruptcy courts to stem the tide of potential future foreclosures. I've learned that the proposed bankruptcy court modification legislation is stalled in congress. In fact, 41 republican senators are holding firm in opposition to the bill - and as long as there are at least 41 senators in opposition, a filibuster can be applied to stop it. What this means for the housing market is simple....millions of homeowners on the brink of foreclosure who might have had their loans modified in bankrupcty court will now be foreclosed upon in the coming months and leading into 2010. This -  combined with the existing backlog of foreclosures that didn't hit the market yet due to the Q1 moratorium, - will result in a considerable increase in supply for the remainder of 2009.

 

So, unless the Feds do something stupid like creating another moratorium, all the pieces are in place for the "perfect foreclosure storm" of  2009 to hit late this spring, and last throughout the remainder of the year. And if interest rates start to inch upwards, we could be looking at a storm every bit as bad as what happened in 2007-2008.

Contributor
merlin
Posts: 47
Registered: 04-22-2008

Re: Why I Am Not Buying (Part 2)

Translation: 12.5% based on current numbers .... low visibility so check back in 6 months :-) Ms. Whitney's prediction is 30% from here. 

  

For the most part things are playing out in the way I had imagined  last year ....  most of the charts floating around various blogs showed 3-5 years after peak of the bubble to be the worst (mostly because of resets on 5/1 arms etc).  This really just confirms it. I sense the powers attacking the problem from several angles ... low rates, foreclosure mitigation, new terms, delays, manipulations, etc.

 

The most optimistic statements so far on the overall economy is that "rate of declined has declined".   

 

If history teaches anything, then bottom is still ahead. If you go back to 1990 and S&L mess the bottom in RE was in 1995 - 5 years later. And S&L was a "common cold" compared to this mess (basically size of entire S&L was AIG).

 

Add to this 2 wars, retiring boomers, higher taxes,  unemployment, 20% down payments, and perhaps a wiser next generation and who knows how and when this will look a few years from now. 

 

Contributor
benectar
Posts: 44
Registered: 04-18-2009

Re: Why I Am Not Buying (Part 2)

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CrazyMan
Posts: 348
Registered: 04-10-2009
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Re: Why I Am Not Buying (Part 2)

Long ways to go.

 

I think we'll overshoot on the downside as well and end up a few percent below inflation adjusted 1997 numbers. Let's be honest here, that's where the numbers should be.

 

When we hit that, I'll start looking. 2011-13 for me.

 

 

 

 

Contributor
Arnold_Layne
Posts: 23
Registered: 04-03-2009

Re: Why I Am Not Buying (Part 2)

Some will never buy  b/c they're so fascinated by the decline and feel so good about themselves for being on the outside looking in, that they are afraid to ruin it by possibly buying before everyone starts posting about the bottom being in.

That's fine, rent as long as you like.

I sold three years ago and will buy as soon as I find what I really like at what I think is a good price, and then I will enjoy that home whether the rest of the housing market 'bottoms', goes up, or oscillates like crazy. Schadenfreude only gets you so far in life.

Cheers!

Trusted Contributor
CrazyMan
Posts: 348
Registered: 04-10-2009

Re: Why I Am Not Buying (Part 2)

I'll gladly keep renting this "$750,000" house for $1800 a month and continue to invest the difference of what I'd pay for the mortgage. Of course that doesn't even include the maintainence, insurance and property taxes all while the lanlord loses the equivalent of my monthly rent in equity each week. Why he hasn't walked away is beyond me, but I digress.

 

More to your point, I agree that if someone finds a home they really like and can afford, it really doesn't matter what the price is.

 

Contributor
maka-san
Posts: 13
Registered: 04-09-2009

Re: Why I Am Not Buying (Part 2)

All I can say in this market is "What's the rush?"

 

Take your time, look at houses, if you find one you really like, then offer them a price which you think is reasonable. Even if it's a low ball offer, be it.  The sellers are living in their fantacy world and still believing their house is worth 2007 prices... someone needs to put reality back into perspective for them. 

 

Even if we reach the bottom in 2008, the prices and crazy over bidding and numerous offers over asking will not return for a long time. People are all scared having gone through, witnessed the tanking of real estate market, and banks have learned their lessons.  

 

I just don't see an agressive come back in at least 5 years.  

 

 

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Arnold_Layne
Posts: 23
Registered: 04-03-2009
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Re: Why I Am Not Buying (Part 2)

I didn't see anyone say there's a rush.

And I don't think the crazy up market will ever come back.

 

But, like we seem to agree on, if you find what you want at your price, why not buy it?

This is not investing, but I realize, getting closer to retirement, folks don't want to lose their shirts.

A lot of 'don't buy the bubble' folks have waited for several years to buy, and hopefully they'll find something soon enough.

 

If my purchase, this year, is not under water in 10 years, I'll be happy. Which means its 'value' may go down further, and then maybe only appreciate 1 or 2% per year for sometime. I'll put down 20% and no more, and invest the rest.

 

No guarantees in life.

But I've owned and rented, and would like to buying soon. Would still like a place to remodel and call my own [yes the bank really owns it....].

Others will be happy to keep renting, enjoying the savings.

Cheers!